Let's take Block Fortress and Tiny Thief as examples What tricks is Tiny Thief pulling to get money out of your pocket? (I believe the only IAP is hints). If you're buying a puzzle game, why the hell would you buy hints? Do you need hints to beat the game? How is Block Fortress trying to make you spend money? By just playing and playing well, you progress normally. There's a natural progression and difficulty curve that ties in with the rate at which you unlock new gear. Sure, if you wanted to totally abandon any sense of becoming a better player and just buy packs, you could. But the game isn't forcing you. What tricks is it pulling? I agree. Premium with no IAP is best. But I don't think all those games are pulling little tricks to make you spend money. Look at Granny Smith. I went to the Tools Shed menu. There are no banners asking me to purchase coin packs. I can't even find where to buy the IAP. Mini Dash has a small Shop menu in the top corner. Selecting levels, starting levels, the pause menu, there is nothing asking me to spend money. The option is there if you don't want to play, but is it necesary? No. Is the game completely balanced to succeed without buying anything? I think so
I think it's all just terminology. I consider any game with IAPs to be either freemium or paidmium. That, IMO, does NOT mean there's a paywall. There are plenty of freemium games that you can play without ever spending a cent. For instance, Punch Quest was freemium when it came out ... TOO freemium to the point where the devs changed to paid because they weren't making any money. There's a really fine line between premium and paidmium games that don't require you to buy IAPs. And like said in the post above, not all gamers are smart enough to realize you can play the game without spending any more money. So where do you draw the line? A game like Joe Danger Infinity is paid with IAPs, but you can still probably play through the game without spending any more than the asking price. Same with Castle Doombad. The difference between those games is merely the fact that Joe Danger pretty much puts the IAPs in your face and encourages you to buy them even if you really don't need them to play the game. Castle Doombad does not. So there's two games (and there are plenty more examples) that both can be played without IAPs but are very different in how flagrant they are in trying to still get you to bite. And many of those paid with IAP games, regardless of how in your face they are, will still prompt you to buy an IAP if you don't have enough in-game currency to buy it. Same goes with the whole "unlock all levels" shortcuts. As regular iOS gamers, we know that usually just means a shortcut. But I would bet a large portion of other gamers may not. So, in summary, there's a fine line that I don't think can be drawn. If there's any line that can be set, it's either you have IAPs or you don't. To gain more favor from gamers, most devs just need to explain IAPs better. I had this argument with Sonic Transformed. It wasn't clear how things were unlocked. People said they could be unlocked in game, but it was far from clear and a rep from the dev even agreed and said they needed to make the descriptions of unlocks clearer. Some people may have bought IAPs because they didn't know they could be earned in-game. Personally, I don't automatically assume that paidmium or freemium games are bad. I just want to know how the IAPs work. Here we have the advantage of talking directly to devs to get explainations. Millions of others don't.
You know, I feel like we can debate this for days and weeks and we'll still never come to a definite agreement on anything
And I don't think there necessarily is a right answer. It's all perception and opinion. So I think it's perfectly fine to disagree. ... And we can all still be friends...
Would you consider games like Pikmin 3 or FFXIII-2 "paidmium" because they have DLC/IAP? Or is "paidmium" just for games that have consumable DLC/IAP?
Most of the games mentioned are more generous than GTA Online , what would you all say it was? I don't think that there are any paid titles I have played that need money to progress on iOS. However on consoles I can list a few. Nearly everything on xbox 1. (Ps4 as well??) GTA Online (level 39 , still haven't earned enough for a 10 car garage.)
Personally, I don't seek an agreement. I know in my heart that a game is at its best when it offers full immersion with no influence of real money. That includes IAP cheats that aren't 'necessary.'
If you bring in online games, that's a whole different story. Games on just about every system made in the last 10 years tend to give you an advantage if you can pay real cash for upgrades. But all of the games you listed as far as story mode are completely playable without paying. And the games we're talking about here, I believe, we're only focusing on the story or "career" mode. And most of the games in this thread are single player games anyway. Yeah, online games are just a sinkhole of money if you really want to compete. Most console games do have matchmaking to level the playing field a bit though.
Some time ago I've played a great old game - Vagrant Story. It was one of my favorites from the time I owned PSX. Anyway, without much trouble I've beaten the first boss, wandered some more in the dungeons and went to fight the second boss. The damage I was dealing to him was between 1 and 3 points, with life being a couple hundred. Obviously I needed to grind some to beat that boss, but the situation repeated itself with the next boss. And the next one and the next one... Have I not known this game I'd think it's a paywall. It really felt like grinding in freemium games, which, as it turns out, haven't changed that much in terms of progress. We've just gotten lazy! We want the whole experience served on a silver tray, possibly in less than 15 minutes. In the past there were cheats in games, today we have IAPs Oh, one more thing... It always makes me smile when people think that simply them playing the game should be rewarding enough to the developers. That they're "investing" a lot of "hard work" in a game, so why should the pay for it with money... Well, guess what? It's not a hard work. It's a pleasure. Otherwise you wouldn't be doing it. And as such has no real value to a person, or a company spending time and resources to give you that pleasure. Simple "thanks" is not enough, sorry. We'll be dealing with F2P as long as there are people not understanding that.
Wait... you can pay money to win games?!? Dear IAP, Where were you on Nintendo? I spent too much time in the arcade paying money to lose games; the industry has now done a total 360 - what will come next?
Sometimes IAP can help with immersion and balance. Dragon Knight IV is a KRPG with steep difficulty spikes (paywalls?) that are challenging but fun that might otherwise be some casual less intense experience without the IAP.
I haven't played either of those titles, but if you look back at one of my earlier posts in this thread, I gave my 'hierarchy' of IAP. Here's how I see it, in terms of optimal on down: 1) Premium/Paid up front/No IAP whatsoever 2) Any type of Shareware-esque/download for free, pay once for full unlock of the rest of the game is just as acceptable as Premium/Paid up front/No IAP whatsoever. The only IAP here is the actual unlock, which is only considered an 'IAP' because it has to be inside the game. Really though, this is simply buying the full game with the ability to try it out beforehand. *I also consider a full game released for free with ads that can be disabled permanently in this same category* 3) DLC is the 'grey' area that typically is alright, as long as it is a stand alone addition (such as a new world or new levels). However, I say this with a warning: if the game already has consumable IAP in other forms, then the DLC could be designed to push those other IAP. This type of IAP is on a case by case basis, but generally I find it to be acceptable. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) Everything else that is not acceptable, or gets docked for being used. This includes consumable IAP of any kind; doublers, triplers, quadruplers (especially in a paid game) and all other fondlers; any kind of timers that can be bypassed with consumable purchases; anything else that falls along these lines that you can think of, which I'm sure you can. Any game that uses these types of monetization schemes whatsoever will not offer an optimal gaming experience. My perspective on the issue is universal, meaning not just iOS gaming. I don't own a console system, but I'm sure the same tactics are used there as well. In the past we had cheats, but they weren't available via IAP, since IAP did not exist. Again, anybody know why?
Still don't agree that you can't get an optimal experience just because IAP is present. Let's use Tiny Thief as an example again. How does hints IAP affect the gameplay, the actual experience, in any way, shape, or form that makes it less than optimal? Or Starborn Anarkist, which I feel is just an insanely generous game? It rewards you for literally playing the game. The presence of the two currency packs don't affect the gameplay in any way. How does that make the game less than optimal?
I imagine it's there as a crutch for the causal gamers or just those find the game too hard. Remember that not everyone who plays IOS games knows to look for Let's Plays or Walkthroughs if they get stuck. Us non-causal gamers know about those, but a younger kid, or maybe a parent, or an older person who's not really into the game scene? The hints are there for those IOS gamers
Think about it though... If a game is able to be completed, then why are IAP present? The kid, parent or even the elderly should be able to complete the game the same as us, if it is designed properly. There shouldn't be an escape route offered in a game, especially not one offered up as IAP. If the IAP is needed, the game is not optimal.
And that's where I have a problem with "premium" games with IAPs. If a casual gamer can't finish a game without making an additional purchase, then it isn't truly a premium game. Sure it may be hard, but just because we're good gamers why should we have the privilege of saying a game isn't paidmium? In addition, a lot of gamers don't realize that some of the IAPs are optional. Again, it's because we have more knowledge, particularly because of resources like this forum.
