On The Subject of Piracy...

Discussion in 'Public Game Developers Forum' started by dorino, Jul 6, 2009.

  1. Little White Bear Studios

    Little White Bear Studios Well-Known Member
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    Yes, it's difficult to release a Lite version at the same time, if you want to include a link to the full version in the Lite version. The Lite version was submitted the moment the full version went live, so I could include the proper link. Lite versions are the bread and butter of my games meant for teens and adults, so I always make one. So rest assured, if there's a game of mine you're interested in, give it a week or two, and there will be a free option for you. :)
     
  2. Little White Bear Studios

    Little White Bear Studios Well-Known Member
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    Guys, I need to get back to work. I may rejoin the conversation later in the day. :)
     
  3. dorino

    dorino Well-Known Member

    Jul 6, 2009
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    You don't have my viewpoint down, not even close. Though some pirates do have that sort of view and developers have to live with it. That was one of my points.

    I don't feel justified in playing every game ever made. I read reviews. I try the game myself, lite when available.
    Others might not, that aside, you were talking about my view, so...
    I don't have a "feel like it" system, and if I can afford it I will, out of respect for the developers efforts actually being worth it, pay for it.

    This isn't every pirates outlook, but again, you refered to me. I can justify my actions because I still support developers as hard as I can. I don't buy a game out of the blue, sure. Apparently that would be your idea of my "hardest". It is, unfortunately, not. I can't justify giving my money to a person just because he spent time on something. It needs to be good and I personally want to find that out.

    In closing, I'll bring it up a third time: This isn't every pirate's outlook, but it IS mine. I feel justified. I've done nothing myself to make any indie developer suffer. I support them to the best of my ability, whether I, at one point, had a cracked copy of their app/game or not!

    That aside, most pirates are assholes. I can't justify everyone's actions, but I can justify mine.

    And justification isn't the issue, is it?
     
  4. ChaoticBox

    ChaoticBox Well-Known Member

    Oct 8, 2008
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    :rolleyes: You started this torturous thread in a forum full of developers. Personally I prefer people who just steal my games and shut up about it.
     
  5. Little White Bear Studios

    Little White Bear Studios Well-Known Member
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    I'm sorry if I'm misunderstanding where you're coming from, but I only have your words to go by.

    Your words:
    "If I liked an app, I purchased it to support a developer whom I felt deserved my money. If I didn't, I deleted it."

    That is a "feel like it" system. You "feel" like circumventing the system to play something you haven't paid for. You "feel" like buying the game if you "feel" it is worthy. If you "feel" like it was crap, you delete it, never compensating the developer for the experience you just had, good or bad. If you "feel" like the game is good, but you "feel" you can't afford it, then you don't "feel" like compensating them for the good experience you just had. You "feel" that you have the right to set the price for the experience, based entirely on your "feelings" for the game.

    Nobody is asking you to buy without knowledge of quality. There are legal ways to find that out. If you can't find it out, the game doesn't need to be played. I'm merely suggesting that trying your hardest would be following the rules set by the developers you're hoping to find respect for.

    Yet you support, and actively participate in, a system that is designed to get paid entertainment for free.

    I think you may be fooling yourself.

    Justification is absolutely the issue. Pirates justify their activities all the time to make themselves feel like they aren't doing a bad thing. I've yet to see a valid justification for piracy in the 15 years I've been on the Internet. You may think you're coming off as more righteous than other pirates, but you're not. The fact that you pay for some of the games later doesn't change the facts of the situation. If you're going to steal, steal. But don't wrap it up in faux good intentions for the devs. You only want to pay for sure things, by circumventing the rules to find out if you like them. My belief system doesn't allow me to do that. If I find a game interesting, I research it. If I like what I see, I buy it. If I don't, or I can't find enough proof of quality, I don't. It's very easy.
     
  6. Little White Bear Studios

    Little White Bear Studios Well-Known Member
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    Exactly. If you're going to rob my house, just rob it. Explaining to me why you may have had a change of heart because you like how I've decorated the place doesn't change the fact that you broke in to begin with.
     
  7. GaiaIllusion

    GaiaIllusion Well-Known Member

    May 6, 2009
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    Dorino walks into a store.
    He takes a chocolate bar, eats it, feels like it's a good choice, then goes to pay for it.

    He takes another chocolate bar later, eats it, hates it, throws it out and walks out of the store without paying.

    So I'm using a material analogy. But that doesn't change the point.
     
  8. crimson.

    crimson. Well-Known Member

    Mar 9, 2009
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    I don't have one...
    In AMERICA.
    They're completely different markets, your analogy doesn't work here. And anyway that's not even the point. Trying before buying is why he (and I) use cracked apps. If you like it and feel it's worth the price you buy it, if not you don't. It's the same reason Blockbuster exists. People don't like buying crap. If devs release a lite version then yes there is no reason to use cracked apps but when there isn't a lite cracked apps are currently the only way.
     
  9. iReview

    iReview Well-Known Member

    May 25, 2009
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    Well I think the analogy somewhat fits and you need to pay to rent a movie or monthly fees so...
     
  10. GaiaIllusion

    GaiaIllusion Well-Known Member

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    Let me suggest a few other ways then, since you're not trying hard enough.

    1. This is TouchArcade. Threads are posted about pretty much every freaking game released. And you're guaranteed the worthwhile games will have topics for them. Read through topics. Read the reviews.

    2. Gameplay videos: So you're unsure about some gameplay. Well, most people put up videos within two days of the release that show most of the game's capabilities. If you're still unsure after watching some real-time video then why bother?

    And I didn't realize I'm allowed to walk into Blockbusters and take a movie out without paying.
    Completely different markets? No, it's very similar.
     
  11. crimson.

    crimson. Well-Known Member

    Mar 9, 2009
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    I don't have one...
    In AMERICA.
    Okay let's go your way. I pay about $6 to rent a $60 game from blockbuster for a week. Well, let's use that same pricing model to find the renting price of most apps. $1 is the price of most apps so let's divide that by 10 and we get 10 cents. Woo. According to you I should pay 10 cents to every dev who's game I try cracked. Fine. I'll give them 10 cents. What else am I gonna use 10 cents on? Till Apple sets up a trial system I'm gonna keep using my cracked apps. Any devs who want their 10 cents can come get it.
     
  12. crimson.

    crimson. Well-Known Member

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    I don't have one...
    In AMERICA.
    #32 crimson., Jul 8, 2009
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2009
    It doesn't matter what it looks like. You need to try it first hand to see if you like it. Just because something looks good doesn't mean you'll like it. I've seen many games that looked good in gameply videos but sucked (IMO) when I bought them. One such is CJS. It looked great in the gameplay videos but turns out I hated the controls and repetitive gameplay. Sad that I paid for it. And reviews are just opinions and as you can see, everyone has a different one. And yes, candy bars and video games are two completely different markets.
     
  13. robertf224

    robertf224 Well-Known Member

    Mar 28, 2009
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    totally agree on the experience thing. You have to pay for the experience, good or bad. While I don't think food analygies like people have been using work, they do make sense.
     
  14. s0mah

    s0mah Well-Known Member

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    Could he go to a restaurant, eat an entire meal, and then bitch loudly enough to get the entire thing comped?

    Trialware can gtfo, imho- give me a goddamned refund.

    Oh and btw, Little White Bear:

    How much kickback do you toss Solomon Golomb? You know, the man you pirated the idea for Zentomino from?
     
  15. s0mah

    s0mah Well-Known Member

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    No.

    In America, every experience is free. I mean, as long as you are willing to bitch loud enough.

    I dunno where you are from though. So maybe fyi only?
     
  16. dorino

    dorino Well-Known Member

    Jul 6, 2009
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    No, but you can walk into blockbusters, find a movie you like, and then pirate it! That's the point. It's available virtually, it's a different market where piracy is existant.

    And like it or not, I do pay for my games. I may be a minority, but I do try hard enough and give credit where it is actually DUE.

    Experiences come with value, but as a consumer on the internet it's ultimately my choice whether that value is reasonable.
    Like it or not.
     
  17. dorino

    dorino Well-Known Member

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    #37 dorino, Jul 8, 2009
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2017
    removed
     
  18. Little White Bear Studios

    Little White Bear Studios Well-Known Member
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    The $6 rental is being offered to you by the makers of the game. Blockbuster didn't just take a movie off the shelf and decide to let you borrow it for $6. That would be illegal. They made a deal with the creators, where the creators get a percentage. No such deal exists for renting apps, thus you have no right to "rent" it, even if you voluntarily sent everyone 10 cents. If Apple wants to setup a 10 cent rental policy, where you get to rent an app for 30 minutes, I'm all for it.

    In this world, where things are for sale, and you are not given a legal option to try it before you buy it, you do not have the god given right try it out, no matter how easy and anonymous the delivery method is. There is no excuse or rationalization that will ever cover that fact up.

    This faulty belief system didn't come into the mainstream until Napster. Before that, you wanted a CD containing the song you liked on the radio? You saved your money, bought the CD, and took your chances that the rest of the album was good. If it sucked, big deal. You lived and learned. Today, you spend $1-$5 on an app, and it turns out to be crap. Big deal. You don't get to buy the #4 at McDonald's today.

    The price of apps are so artificially low right now it's ridiculous. I have to sell literally hundreds of copies every single day, to make a living at $1 an app. Lest you all forget, we only get 70% of that, and sometimes less in foreign countries. Then we give 35%-50% of that amount to taxes in the US. So in reality, one sale equals about 50 cents at most. Fifty cents for months of work. Yet people are still resorting to cracked apps. Why on earth does anyone need to try a $1 app before taking the plunge? I spent more than a dollar driving to the store today. I have no doubt in my mind, if Apple suddenly lowered the minimum app price to 25 cents, people would still cry foul, and get the cracked version before dropping a quarter on faith.

    The reason for someone using cracked apps is irrelevant to most devs. Whether you steal for stealing's sake, or you can't afford the app, or you find yourself unable to follow the rules in your quest for the next great game to buy, it's all exactly the same. Yeah, maybe I got a sale out of someone trying my game illegally. But how many other devs involved in this "app rental system" didn't? 10? 50? 100? More?
     
  19. Little White Bear Studios

    Little White Bear Studios Well-Known Member
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    Which is what Lite versions are for. If there isn't a Lite version, and you don't trust what you see, don't buy it. You don't NEED anything on the App Store. :)
     
  20. Little White Bear Studios

    Little White Bear Studios Well-Known Member
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    #40 Little White Bear Studios, Jul 8, 2009
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2009
    Please get your facts straight. Solomon Golomb invented the name polyomino. Polyominoes have existed for over a hundred years. Here's the quote from Golomb himself:

    “the observation that there are twelve distinctive patterns (the pentominoes) that can be formed by five connected stones on a Go board … is attributed to an ancient master of that game”

    And in my app description, it clearly states that Zentomino is based on Pentominoes. Nobody owns it. There were pentomino apps on the web, and on the App Store, and in physical form, before Zentomino came out.
     

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