On The Subject of Piracy...

Theft is wrong. Why should I reward that?

Yes, it's our fault you're breaking the law. We're forcing you into a life of crime...for a $1 video game.

Let's say you stole 50 games, and you paid for ten of them. You reimbursed ten people, and screwed 40 others. It doesn't matter what you thought of the games. Fifty played, ten paid for. All of them tried illegally. I respect that you acknowledge it's stealing. If you feel justified, that's your business, but never ever expect all of to agree with you.

I see where you're coming from, I guess.
I'll respect your work, you respect mine, and we can hate eachother's guts as much as we please, yes?[/QUOTE]

 

Sorry, on my phone on couldn't scroll to this part, and have spotty service right here. Anyway, I don't hate you. I'm just disappointed that more people don't take the legal route, instead of resorting to pirating. Whether money is lost is not the issue for me. So we'll have to agree to disagree here.

 

In "real life"? I hate to break it to you but app developers are not avatars in cyberspace.

By ACTUAL WORTH do you mean the $0.50-worth of packaging? You do realize that in high volume the cost of a pressed disk is around a dime right? Do you really think the box is what you’re paying for?

OK so let me extrapolate your argument here. I will clearly never buy a Ferrari... So I break in a dealership and drive away with a Testarossa. The dealership is insured so it has lost NOTHING. Ferrari might get another order from the dealership to replace the one I took so from its perspective it might actually a good thing. In any case neither of them has lost a sale because I would have never bought the car anyway... So... Hurray for me?

No reason I guess. First of all I wouldn’t say that I hate them, I despise them. Secondly, "Morals and stealing" are sufficient and I don’t need any further reason to despise someone.

 

I think people have a different perception of virtual goods versus tangible goods. Napster unleashed a can of worms with people's morals and what they consider stealing. If you start hating everyone who's ever downloaded a song from Napster, Limewire, or any of the other peer networks for free...you'll be surprised at how many people will fall onto that list. Add to that anyone who's burned or ripped CD's/DVD's. Or does software fall into a different category? And if so...why? Stealing is stealing right? I don't have a jailbroken phone, and I don't own any pirated or cracked apps. But I don't despise or look down on anyone who does. Everyone has their own code of ethics and morals. However, if someone stole a dev's code and tried to sell it as their own game...I'd have a big problem with that.

 

Guggug, thank you very much! I an very happy to hear you've enjoyed my games, and their lite versions.

Other than the moral issues, and the fact that pirates suck bandwidth and money from devs on any game that has interaction with a server, their existence is an annoyance. I think it sucks at the soul of small devs, who aren't hitting it rich, as they can see the pirate copies far outnumber their sold copies.

 

I prefer my analogies to booze, personally.

Scurvy.

Agreed. Personally I don't have anything against the pirates, really, but if I release a game and more people are downloading cracked versions than actually buying the game, I'd be pretty annoyed. From a business perspective it looks really bad. Plus, I think most indie devs put a lot of heart and soul into their games, for us it's like an art form, so to see people doing that sort of cheapens it a little.


EDIT: Full disclosure: I have no experience with the app store yet, but I am an experienced developer, working in software. I don't have a jailbroken phone nor do I use cracked apps. I'm an adult, I have a job, and I don't steal. I can understand a few scenarios where I'd be tempted to pirate apps, but most of them involve being a kid with an internet connection and no access to a credit card.

 

A very valid point. I can't really respond to that one.

And to whoever else is was that replied to my comment (Don't remember your name, just remember your smug comment), you COMPLETELY misunderstood my point. If I stole that Ferrari, even though the dealership might be insured, the INSURANCE company still has to pay for it. Now, that's what insurance is for, but I'm still causing the insurance company to lose money (Paying for a new Ferrari).

But yea, you are right in the sense that the container for the game costs next to nothing. But that was just a bad analogy. Swap out that video game for a VIDEO GAME CONSOLE, and then tell me I was wrong by calling a real world comparison frivolous. This is going to sound crass, but it's developers like you, who cannot comprehend a pirate's motives in the least, that make me want to pirate your app. If you despise me, I figure why the F not?

I openly admit to downloading cracked apps sometimes as a form of a trial method, but I set "rules" with myself. I allow myself to play it for maybe 10-20 minutes, similar to a demo version of a game on other mobile phones. Then I either buy it or delete it.

My argument (or rather, statement) is quite simple: not all pirates are these greedy good-for-nothings you claim they are. Can you honestly say you despise me for what I do? Because if you do, then you must be a very troubled person.

EDIT: "However, if someone stole a dev's code and tried to sell it as their own game...I'd have a big problem with that."

Pharmx, that is SPOT on. That is something you have to be truly a nasty person to do.

 

I have pirated one app, I jailbroke my iPod and temptation got the better of me, but my iPod was too slow so I un-jailbroke it and bought the game out of guilt.
I have never pirated anything else myself and I don't think anyone anymore has an excuse to pirate Music, due to Spotify.

And to Dorino, you say you have 7 pages of Apps, most at some point pirated. You also deleted 3 more pages of pirated apps. that is 160 pirate apps. Lets say each costs around 2 bucks, thats $300. So you have admitted to stealing hundreds of dollars of apps.
You have stolen $300 of goods

 

I’m glad you realize that someone is losing money in the hypothetical scenario I brought up however it is not the insurance company that will pay for the stolen Ferrari. They will factor it in their actuarial model and the bill will be shared among all dealerships in their premiums. This will drive operation cost up and as a result the sticker price of these cars will increase. It's the same thing as when people cheat on their taxes, the rest of us have to pick up the tab somehow.

I grew up around petty crime and I don’t think I’m missing the point. Taken individually the ethically-challenged actions of a single person are never a big deal, but as they accumulate across a wider community they take a substantial toll on everybody else, both financially and psychologically. If the percentage of Jailbroken devices is truly around 5% then I’ll be the first one to admit that iPhone app piracy is not a big deal but as it grows a couple of things might happen:
1 - discouraged independent developers will stop pouring their blood and tears in the development of worthwhile and innovative applications and all you’ll be left with will be fart and bikini model apps.
2 - the price of applications might go up based on the realization that the ratio of people who are willing to pay for them is shrinking.

Sure it is fairly innocent for a kid to install a pirated copy of an application and I’m not concerned about that at all. The problem comes from the fact that as the practice becomes more spread among people who could really afford the tiny price tag it leads to the sense of entitlement that started this whole thread.

I guess it is that sense of entitlement - the “I deserve something for nothing” attitude - that I really despise because it shows a complete disregard for everyone else. No empathy? No sympathy!

 

Downloading a cracked app isn't stealing, it's excepting a stolen good.

Unless you sold copywritten material that wasn't yours for profit then you haven't stolen anything.

There's hundreds of comparible senerios, to back up the moral questions of downloading cracked apps, but none of them are ever accurate because they are taking two different markets, and two different products and trying to find some similarities to fit their point of veiw.

I download cracked apps, because of shotty development practices, like misleading descriptions in price changes ((SGN)). Or just plain lameness. Who wants to spend $5 on somthing you know is most likely gonna be crap. Or that gonna be cents in a week. I don't do it out of spite, I do it because it's easier then wasting money, or begging for the promised content update. It's easier to avoid by just nicking it.

I buy apps that I know I'm gonna need readily available updates to, usually because they have an online registry that is linked to a device by way of email accounts.

I'm an AppStore veteran, & I've spent hundreds on T.O.F.T.Ting (as they say)
and I know that it's easier to impulse buy then to make a educated purchase. But devs half ass there descriptions, change prices based how much they can get, & spit on original priced adopters.

 

And to all of you so called "moral" people.

If you can say every personal/private music track you've owned was purchased.......forget it it's impossible.

So there digital data/content is up for grabs.

The Internet is the new international waters!

 

Not impossible if you are not a thief.
Did you read what you wrote 10 minutes ago?

 

Your whole arguement became ridiculous and completely stupid from the first statement.

 

So then is borrowing your friends cd to record a track stealing from the artists?

If so, there's a lot of theft in the world.

& there's a big difference in stealing copywritten material and accepting cracked content, knowingly or unknowingly.

 

& you still read the entire post, So who's stupid?

 

I'm sorry, but you're mistaken.

 

wrong, wrong, wrong. You still missed my point. If I stole that Ferrari, SOMEONE HAD TO PAY FOR IT. I CAUSED SOMEONE, OR SOMETHING, SOMEWHERE, TO PAY FOR IT. If I download a pirated app, no one suffers from the download. That download has no material value, thus in no way HURTS the developer by having to pay for it.

EDIT: By the way, I DO in fact feel entitled to a small demo period. If the app store HAD a freakin' demo period for full versions of apps, the App Store would be pretty much perfect in regards to 'fighting' cracked apps. I guarantee that if Apple ever gave you a 10-15 minute trial for ALL game/apps, or even a return period of like 30 minutes, the piracy rate would drastically drop.

 

You still. Come see me when you say something that makes sense, because that didn't.

 

still
Idiom:
Informal After taking everything into consideration; nevertheless; however: Still and all, our objective can be achieved.

Ergo: you still read (pastense) the entire post.

Are you a freakin' git or something? it's the bloody English language

now leave me alone please.

 

What are you talking about? I read the first sentence of your post and quoted how stupid it was.