Will you pay for review and promote?

@mr Ugly
I've been given promo codes and asked to review the app as a result of the freebie, and wrote an honest review - even it was not 5 stars. They may be giving you something free in return for a gesture, but they aren't selling your integrity. People do that on their own in hopes that, because they are a guaranteed write-off, and promote themselves as one, they will continue to receive free games from other developers.

Good games get sales because they are good, not because some dude wrote a blog entry, or some other guys put a couple of 5 star ratings for the kickback.

So I'm assuming the same principles apply to any credible news source.

 

Actually, I do run a major mac related website myself that gets in the range of 150,000-200,000 hits a month. It pulls in some pretty hefty income via advertising as I imagine toucharcade does as well, enough to live comfortably on at least. Although I know toucharcade and macrumors are both much bigger than I am. So you would be in another income bracket all together.

Still, since I like to spend my time mountain biking and with my family instead of pounding away at a keyboard, I don't do anything that doesn't directly make me money. So if a company approaches me asking for a review that won't directly make me money, isn't already in my review schedule I set, or particularly interest me, then I simply don't have the time to give it a fair review, I've got more important things to do. If they offer a monetary compensation... that changes matters.

It won't necessarily change the review I give the product, I still have integrity, but if I'm going to spend my energy writing and reviewing I plan on being fully compensated.

I see very little difference between paying somebody to look at your product and paying somebody to put up an advertisement on their website for your product. Actually, it could be a bit riskier since you could get a negative review. But a negative review is better than no review to me. That's just me, and how I choose to run my businesses.

 

German magazines, biggest ones, 2 products ive been involved with developing. And a mayor online league at the time bending forward so you can see the sign "please insert coin here".

At the end you dont aim at the ordinary writer.. You target their bosses.. Thoose who have a say in thing like article length, placement etc.

Everything is circling around money.. I dont now how ta is running, how it is funding itself, so i cant comment on that and actualy dont really care. Its your guys business.

But if i take a websie thats solely funded by ads as an example. I highly doubt they take the risk to piss off the biggest advertisers they have by not reviewing their products or even ripping them appart. If they loose the adds they loose their websie/magazine whatever they are running.


Every once in a while you read about publisher x to medle in such things.
But the truth is all are doing it in some way, always. If i visit publisher x and come home with half their games portfolio is that a bribe? Its just a gift right, but not everything is as obvious and putting a dollar on the table.

Game developement is as all business about making money. May it be to pay your rent or the next ferrari it doest matter. Its a biz. And since we are living in a capitalistic world everything is about money. So i dont see a problem to pay for a review spot if i had too.

 

You are 100% correct, no amount of advertising of any sort will make a bad game get good sales.

I shouldn't say "Any" amount... maybe "any reasonable" amount is better. Money makes the world go round after all. Hence why we all buy relatively common rocks called diamonds that are mined by slaves for ridiculously high prices.

 

In an idealistic world that may be true. But your product could cure cancer, it still wont sell without visibility. If no one knows your product whom are gonna sell it too?

Im completly fine with everything, sending out promos, paying for ad campaigns etc. Thats biz.

And what are credible news nowerdays? Source a say yay , source b says nay and source c says the truth but youll never read it because its in indian language

Everything is about individual points of view, like the wikileaks stuff.. You can read so much different angles on the same thing.. So which of thethousand perspectives are thoose with credentials?

Well usualy thoose that fit your view of the world best.. But that doesnt make is right for everyone.. That boild down to pretty much everything in life

For one doodle jump is the most wesome game form for others a boring platformer of somesorts... And thats ok.

 

Actually... I submit that if your product could cure cancer, it still wouldn't sell because no pharmaceutical company in their right mind would ever pick it up. Isn't capitalism grand? What a wonderful system we've developed for ourselves.

 

Curing cancer is a bit like freemium games.

Why give someone everything for a single small amount if you can get him hooked and earn alot more that way and keep him returning to invest into your product...

Bu whe are going offtopic here

 

Ugly- "your first hit is free" that's... so on the nose that it kind of makes me sick to my stomach...

back on topic... come to think of it, diamonds are a perfect example in this instance.

Do you know how diamonds became popular in wedding and engagement rings?

In the 40's De Beers paid movie stars to wear them in their films and started the "diamonds are forever" slogan. It was one of the first successful examples of product placement (apart from cigarettes of course...). Since people started seeing their idols wearing the rings, they wanted them too. And thus the diamond engagement ring was born.

However, when left up to the women, they usually would purchase a small reasonable diamond that they could afford. So, De Beers launched a new ad campaign a half decade later promoting the "surprise engagement" and telling men to pick out the ring and surprise his lady with something extravagant. Guess how they promoted it: in movies and on tv shows. Eventually it became the rule of thumb that an engagement ring should be roughly equal to 3 months salary.

The lesson: Paid product placement works. Is it distasteful? Perhaps. Does it work? Yes.

 

That is the biggest copout I've ever heard and typifies everything wrong with reviews.

Still, keep believing you have integrity if it helps you sleep at night.

 

Hah! Perhaps. Unfortunately, that's reality when you don't get paid by the hour to do line somebody else's pockets. My time has to be worth something. On the other hand, I do refuse to promote anything that I don't actually like and I turn away a disturbingly large number of terrible products. No sense in having them waste money on what would be a terrible review.

By the way, I checked out bandersnatch. Cool mission statement. Not a fan of horror, but I like the idea of the writers being involved all the way through the project. Are you familiar with these guys: http://jakonrath.blogspot.com/ ? If you ever do some historical fiction or something in the vein of Neal Stephenson, give me a holler!

 

My point is integrity is personal, it isn't sold, it's given away. A good or bad game, and the cure for cancer don't even relate. You wouldn't have to sell that, if it worked. You're confusing an absolute truth like a cure, to something that is based on opinion, and general census.

 

Woo! Moral debates spawning from game development questions!

I honestly wish what you said about integrity was true (and the point about not having to sell a cure for cancer... it's beautiful to see people still believe in the general goodness of humanity and corporations). However, if you ever spent any time around an advertising or marketing agency, your idealism would be quickly crushed. That's why I left the industry.

You have no idea just how much everything we read, enjoy, and think we like are all influenced by these guys *cough*Apple*cough*.

The point is- paying somebody for their time to review your game is fair and it works. The alternative is to make a truly great game that has enough merits on its own to be mentioned by major media outlets. That's much easier said than done though. Hopefully all of us can achieve this though!

 

While I think you're a smart guy who knows how to make money, that kind of thinking is exactly what's wrong and makes people second guess who they trust. Besides the argument that a product must be good at its core, if you can't take the time to write a review because there's no benefit to you, then you and your site's credibility is shot. I work in marketing too along with a number of product reviewers and news publications, and if they were found to take payment for their well-placed, puff pieces, they would never survive. There is a fine line between advertising and journalism and yes, companies do advertise and pay for placement but those are clearly obvious.

I'm sure I'll get some cynical arguments about how all publications and media outlets are paid for their reviews, but that's not how it works in the real world. It may work like that in your world, but I think you do a disservice to readers who are looking for information.

Note that every review I've ever written for TA and anywhere else has been without compensation from developers, and I take that to be the case with the rest of the reviewers here at TA.

 

Paying to be reviewed is different than to pay for a good review.

A review is advertising, and advertising usualy doesnt come free anyway..

Even sending a promo code for a game worth 1$ could be seen as "paying" for a review.

Its just a dollar but where does it start where does it end? 2, 5, 10, 100? More?

 

Here's the problem with that statement...if you're the dev paying for a review, the objectivity is more or less tainted. If you get a good review, I wouldn't trust it much if I'm a joe schmoe consumer knowing what I know. If you get a negative or less than enthusiastic review, well, I think there's a good chance that the review is sugar coated in what would normally be a bad review. If the money is coming from the app's dev, the review is suspect either way.

 

That's a big stretch, the promo code is merely a means of getting the reviewer a copy of the game. It's definately not a payment to the reviewer.

 

Well that depends on the credibillity not? If i have limited slots why should one not at least try to monetize them? Why should this mean more than if the dev posts adds on that side?

If the result of the review is not bought thats ok not?

If you want to really play the credibilty card, your website wont have any ads whatsoever, no previews, early betas, promo code acceptace etc. you would buy all stuff you review out of your own pocket without any! Relation to devs and associates..

But how realistic is that? Gotoats is just a stamp nothing more. Do you control every cent that goes and comes to that websites? Or do you just trust in people?
I rather have it clear in the open, there are x review slots for sale, everyon can get one and read the final review themself and then make up their mind if its biased or not. At least one is honest about the way their system works

If you really want to be unbiased you might need something like this for games

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stiftung_Warentest

 

Well, I've done my share of work overseas in Asia and Europe and what you're saying makes sense over there. There isn't a clear line between the advertising and editorial departments as there is here in the states. So what you're saying makes sense in that context. It's actually pretty common practice for reporters and ad reps to be one in the same overseas. But, let's be clear...that isn't how it is here.

 

I agree with full disclosure completely. If one is compensated to review something, one should disclose it. It likely does color a review, and acknowledging that from the outset helps the reader understand where the review is coming from.

In fact, I believe that's part of the FTC's guidelines (16 CFR Part 255 to be exact)

In the end though, we all make our own decisions based on our own principles. This has been a fun discussion guys, but I'm signing out now.

Everything that needs to be said on the topic has been said and I think we've pretty well represented both sides of the spectrum, at this point it's just reiterating for the newcomers who don't want to read through the whole discussion.